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RT

Can't complain about the scoreline or level of Aussie ineptitude but the level of double standards / hypocracy from last Summer is staggering. Little reported was when Slogwag and TLM stood their ground when clearly caught in the 1st Test. Just like Clarke in Sydney, who got a deserved bake.

I guess the Aussies behaviour just gets marked so much harder and the Indians virtually get off scott free. Khan would have been summoned in front of Sutherland and given the cane for running after Hayden when he got out.

Adsy

Is this sort of thing in the "spirit" of the game?

Tony T.

Rich: The Aussies were world's best practice ineptitude. Hats off.

Ads: That's very much in the spirit of cricket... as we now know it.

Boo

>. Just don't squeal like pigs

I guess no one has a monopoly on squealing like pigs, Tony. Just ask Symonds or Ponting. Your pigs are just as squeal-worthy as mine.

Tony T.

That's the point, Boo.

What's good for the goose is good for the other gooses.

For the record:

Australia: 2 squealers.

India: 102,232 squealers, 23,267 effigies burners, 3,789 donkeys with placards.

Tony T.

By the way.

It's "squeal like pigs when you're not winning." We're not winning, but our blokes have been generous to a fault about the high standard of Indian play, and haven't squealed - in public, anyway - about the Indian histrionics.

Boo

>> Balls! Two wrong-uns don't make a right-un. Straya have made a concerted effort to clean up their act. CricAussie, the ICC and the BCCI agreed. And yet, hot on the heels of the Indians chucking the toys out of the crib in Australia, here they are doing every single thing they whinged about.

So lemme get it straight - what we're advocating here is that one side can act like perfect arses for a decade and the day someone stops putting up with it, said decade-long offenders should suddenly be allowed to turn a leaf and grow a conscience not just for themselves but also for the rest of the world? Ha-comeuppance-ha.

Everybody else put up with Waugh's mental-disintegration shit for a decade; how come you're precious after just one summer? ;)

Tony T.

No, I'm not precious. I don't have a problem with either side acting like "arses".

I have a problem with one side squealing about the other side acting like "arses" then doing the same thing themselves.

Boo

>> Australia: 2 squealers.
>> India: 102,232 squealers, 23,267 effigies burners, 3,789 donkeys with placards.

That's just proportional with the population eh? Let's compare relative hicks to relative hicks and we'll be alright. :)

>> I have a problem with one side squealing about the other side acting like "arses" then doing the same thing themselves.

When you set out to become an arse, it goes with the territory, Tony. You'll get a few hissy fits and a few punches, depending on who's throwing them.

I'm sure in time to come, Indian cocks will get their comeuppance, just as Aussie cocks are getting theirs. Just that - at this point - it feels more like payback, so hey forgive us our hypocrisy.

Dave

Yeah, I've got to say, Boo's arguments are persuasive.

I was kind of waiting for the usual barrage of Oz-cuses: bad decisions, opposition not walking, opposition claiming bounce catches, various other misdemeanours that all test nations indulge in from time to time. I'm all for a bit of post-match analysis, and I understand it's natural to look to the enemy for blame, but bottom line is your team were outplayed - none of that other stuff makes any difference in the context of this match.

Seems to me that you guys are not only rattled by the result itself, but also the nature of the result.

Both teams have complained about the same things they've perpetrated - now it's hypocrites crying "hypocrite!". In your poll, I say change the habit of a lifetime and try option A.

13th Man

I think most Strayans would agree - we played like crap. We deserved to lose. Can't complain about India winning. It's the hypocracy that is worth noting.

Vindicate

Did the Aussies have a crack at the Indians about their behaviour post Mohali? If they did I must have not read it, please feel free to link articles if they have.

That's directed at Boo and Dave by the way, please... direct me to where the Aussie team are calling "hypocrite".
From what I saw of the post match ceremony and write-ups on crocinfo the Australians had nothing but good words for the Indian side who, in their own words, had totally outplayed them.


I'm going to take a punt here and guess that you're a pom Boo, ergo an English cricket fan and have been on the sharp end of Australian teams for the last fifteen years - it would explain your overly hostile attitude anyway, and wanting to find dirt that seemingly isn't there.

Again, if I'm wrong - please feel free to link the evidence.

RT

Sunny Boy, the voice of reason....

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/gavaskars-views-im-surprised-zaheer-was-fined/34990-13.html.

Homer

Here you go Vindicate

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/ponting-accuses-india-of-crossing-the-line/34972-13.html

"Bit of chit-chat is something okay with all and it's only when you overstep the line that the umpires intervene. And umpires intervened a couple of times, like the one involving Zaheer Khan yesterday," Ponting said in the post-match press conference.

Cheers,

Samir Chopra

Tony,

Aren't we missing something? The Aussies taught Indians a good lesson: mental disintegration is key, "play hard", sledge via the press, und so weiter. Lessons learnt after Sydney (or rather over the years; Indian kids watch Channel 9 replays of foul-mouthed Aussie bowlers with great interest and practice out in backyard, note that Waugh defends mental disintegration but also moans about having to wait for toss). The MD started with the press conference, and its still going on. Onus is on Australia to respond: either with spinners that can turn the ball, or pacemen that can swing, or continue with more sledging whether on the ground or via the compliant media contingents. To see Indians accused of hypocrisy in this regard is er, Pot, Kettle, Black c.f Hard Man Haydos complaining of sendoff, Ultra Hard Man Roy complaining of response to sledge.

Samir Chopra

Some more thoughts: When a team makes a habit of aggression, over the years, proudly, and loudly, and marks it as an integral component of their success, they shouldn't be surprised it gets copied. Everyone likes imitating winning strategies. It helps to get good bowlers and batsmen too.

Secondly, Australia doesn't get to exclusively calibrate the scale of aggression. Didn't notice any Aussie patents out there that require licensing fees to be paid for suitable use of mental disintegration strategy ("No, you can't turn it up to 11, only we can!" -thats why I think Gideon jumped the shark). Perhaps the whole Sydney fiasco was a giant sledge? A giant mentally disintegrative ploy? And everyone has fallen for it. (like Ganguly still managing to induce conniptions seven years on).

BTW, please watch the Dhoni replay again. Dhoni appealed as he went down and grabbed the ball. By the time he came up, he was asking for a check via third umpire, and his expression had changed. He knew it wasn't totally kosher.

Homer

Australian wicketkeeper Brad Haddin and Indian fast bowler Zaheer Khan’s heated exchange during the first Test had the potential of snowballing into a major crisis but Match Referee Chris Broad has played down the incident, saying it was just a ‘chat’.

“It’s a Test match involving Australia, isn’t it,” Broad was quoted as saying in a local daily. “There’s always a bit of chat. Nothing was reported to me.”

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081015/jsp/sports/story_9969939.jsp

---
ndian Fast Bowler Zaheer Khan has been charged by International Cricket Council's Match Referee Chris Broad for unsporting conduct while celebrating Matthew Hayden's dismissal on Monday during Australia's Second Innings of the Second Test.

Zaheer_Khan.jpgZaheer, who started the final day Tuesday with three quick wickets, will answer a Level 2 offence for conduct contrary to the spirit of the game. If found guilty, the penalty can range from 50 to 100 percent of his match fee or a one-test ban.

Hayden complained to umpire Rudi Koertzen, who was standing at square leg, when he left the ground after being trapped lbw by Harbhajan Singh in the over before lunch.

http://www.cricket360.com/501-zaheer-khan-charged-by-icc.html
---

hy·poc·ri·sy -–noun, plural -sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

Cheers,

Big Ramifications

The "spirit of the game" comment is still the winner in my book. It sums everything up nicely. In fact it probably belongs in the Pantheon of clangers with "no child living in poverty..." "neva evarr going to have GST..." etc etc.

Didn't he get a golf clap from a few of the Indian journalists present when he said it?

I wonder if little pouty "Violet" Kumble feels like a bit of a tool? Or on the other end of the scale, I wonder if there's any introspection going on in that head of his?

Big Ramifications

"Some more thoughts: When a team makes a habit of aggression, over the years, proudly, and loudly, and marks it as an integral component of their success, they shouldn't be surprised it gets copied."

Bingo. We have a winner. Come up and get your prize, Mr Samir.

It can't be copied. It's like trying to copy "being funny" or something. And, as mentioned above, if it is copied then it comes out as being all bumph and bluster and in spurts and farts.

From a personal perspective, I've seen it over and over again and it's really starting to get in my craw.

Nobody on the planet sledges better than an Aussie who went to a Catholic school that had lots of country kids (ie: 30% boarders). Nobody.

And I've been in the workplace or sporting field or friend-of-a-friend's BBQ or where the fack ever where some tool bully has tried to "copy" sledging and directed it at me. And it's all "bring it on bitch, let's do this thing."

And 99.9% of the time it ends in tears. The tool / bully / moron whatever you want to call them just can't hack it and out comes the dummy and they go all pouty, or worse, it becomes aggressive and then I'm the one who has to back off to de escalate the situation!

I reckon the Indian team are a perfect example of this.

BTW, for those who are interested. The number 1 rule for sledging is: don't take yourself too seriously. That's what makes it so annoyingly laffable… but mostly annoying. I'm having a bit of tete-a-tete and then suddenly the guy snaps and it's "aww shit the dickhead's taken it personally." Seriously. I've seen guys loose it and THAT HAS NOT BEEN MY INTENTION AND WE ALL LOSE.

PS BTW, other "rules" for sledging include having a thick skin (especially if you're not good at rule number 1), intelligence, and a quick wit. A few Aussies players aren't good sledgers either. eg. Haydos. Never rated Healy either and didn't he have a mouth on him.

OK, I'm rambling. Moral of the story to the Indians. Don't copy.

Big Rammer's Mum

loose it?

neva evarr?

Son, I think I wasted a lot of money sending you to that school, your awesome sledging skills not withstanding.

Boo

>> I'm going to take a punt here and guess that you're a pom Boo

Sorry to so disappoint, Sir Watson. I yum verry much a head-bobbing, middle-class-burgeoning Yindian (call centre, not casino) - no stiff upper lips, wonly shaky hips.

>> your overly hostile attitude

Who, me? Blimey!

Tony T

Afternoon all. Looks like there's been a fulsome and enthusiastic exchange of opinions in my absence. Good show.

Boo, is India planning a call centre on the moon yet?

Shreesanth must be destined to play some time soon. When you want over-the-top sledging, with tears, you should go for world's best/worst practice.

Tony T

I just read Spanky's article in yesterday's Age:

Australia's cricketers and the wearing of the saggy green

India's great players have outlasted their counterparts, besides which Australia had not defeated these opponents legitimately since the Boxing Day Test match. Betrayed at the SCG, India has won one and drawn two of the ensuing Tests.

Legitimately? Betrayed?

Tony T

Spanky Roebuck: provocative fvcker. (Extreme language.)

Two can play that game: India don't know how to sledge.

RT

Agree Big Ram THAT comment was the most provocative piece of inflamatory garbage I've heard a cricket captain verbal.

Indian have a great side. Hope Kumble can't force his way in.

What he should have said was "Anyone who sacks a bloke because he doesn't turn up for work today is a bum!" Far more in keeping with Australian etiquette.

Tony T

Currently the nation's most provocative comment: "Ken Wood ticked it off."

RT

Through all this I'd forgotten Shreesanth. Thanks for reminding me TT. That baked walnut would be doing Elvis gyrations in front of Hayden all the way to the pavillion.

Boo

>> Boo, is India planning a call centre on the moon yet?

Tony, of course. The moment our satellite makes it safely past the motley Iridium crew.

Vindicate

Alright Homer I'll credit that one, fair call by Punter but he should be working on how to survive 10 overs with Instant and Haydos with ZK than worrying about the other team.

Re: Sunils comments in the aforementioned link - I guess he's only as much of a one-eyed Indian supporter as I am a one-eyed Aussie supporter so we're even stevens there.
Can I put you in that category too, Boo?

Boo

>> I guess he's only as much of a one-eyed Indian supporter as I am a one-eyed Aussie supporter so we're even stevens there. Can I put you in that category too, Boo?

As long as I get to be the right eye. :)

rambler

one of the reasons we dont see too many Aussie cricketers complaining about supposed over-the-top display of the Indians is the sheer size of defeat. The guys who cried would look like utter fools given the walloping they got in all aspects of the game. Indians and Kumble perhaps said what they did because of the close defeat, which could easily have been a draw - hence the pain was more?

Boo

For a fine example of shit-stirring, visit:


Cracks visible in Aussie camp, says Pandit

Mid-way through the on-going four-match Test series, world champions Australia find themselves at the receiving end and are under tremendous pressure to deliver but former India stumper and coach, Chandrakanth Pandit, ruling out such a turn around, said the cracks in their team was quite visible during the second Test match at Mohali, which the tourists lost by 320 runs.


You've got to admire the man. He managed to insert a knife into every sentence.

Samir Chopra

"It can't be copied. It's like trying to copy "being funny" or something. And, as mentioned above, if it is copied then it comes out as being all bumph and bluster and in spurts and farts."

Nice try, Ramifications. Try telling that to the history of art, literature, music, or, in fact, just about anything else. Copying anything work, especially if you can do it better, and make the original wish he hadn't done it better. In fact, your post is a classic example of what I was remarking on in my post. "We invented it, how can you do it? Oh, we do it so well, so we get to decide what the quality standard is"

So, in fact, why don't you step on right up, and pick up your giant Tandoori Nan as *your* award, for the most Precious Insistence on the Australian Ownership Claim to Sledging.

Samir Chopra

Sorry, that should read "Copying anything works, especially if you can do it better, and make the original wish he had done it better."

Vindicate, its "Samir", not "Sunil". I like to think I've more than one eye, but it might not be visible from Down Under. Especially when viewed through the lens of SydneyGate.

Rambler: I think you're on to something there.

Tony T.

Samir, I think Vindicate was referring to this Sunil:

Gavaskar's views: 'I'm surprised Zaheer was fined'

Zaheer pleaded guilty at the hearing conducted by match referee Chris Broad but while the Indian camp has accepted the punishment, former India captain Sunil Gavaskar has accused the ICC of double standards.

"I am a little surprised that Zaheer is being taken to task. Because quiet frankly there were a lot incidents in the match for instance, when Virender Sehwag was batting in his second innings was given not out, everyone appealled but Ricky Ponting came from extra cover towards the umpire and kept on asking again and again. Now, if that had been an Indian the match refree must have taken him into task and would have fined him. This is where I think everytime a sub-continent player gets into a Code of violation and they always get pulled up. The Australians never get pulled up," said Gavaskar.

He further added, "This is where I think the ICC needs to get its act together. I don't know what Zaheer did and what he said. I know he went around Hayden and if he had abused him then obviously he deserves to get punished. But let's not mince words over here -- every time its always an Indian or a sub-continent player who gets hauled up and never the Australians."

The link was in this comment by RT.

haiku

Sunil's opinions are like Sarah Palin's views on Russian relations. They should be treated with all the respect they deserve.

Adsy

This post is giving me the 'orn

Adsy

This post is giving me the 'orn

Samir Chopra

Tony, thanks for clearing that up.

Adsy: Thanks for that. Perhaps the two teams could do a joint viewing of D&C.

Big Ramifications

Try telling that to the history of art, literature, music, or, in fact, just about anything else. Copying anything work, especially if you can do it better, and make the original wish he hadn't done it better.

Samir, heavily implied there is that you think the Indian side's copied version of Australia's smouldering aggro and sledging is a superior version(?) Excuse me while I change keyboards, it just got sprayed with beer.

I'll even revise my Haydos call and say the WHOLE AUSTRALIAN SIDE is crap at the sledging aggro thing, so even more reason for the Indians not to be copying (I'll leave out the Indian hypocricy part, that's already been covered and only a complete moran would say that isn't the case).

This is not the Thomson, Lillee sledging of old. Dismissing a batsman and running past going "woooooo hooooooo!" in a high pitched voice is not sledging. Christ, that annoys me. Saying to an opposition player "fack you, fack this, fack that" is not sledging.

Here's a lament on the state of F1 that I've copy'n'pasted from another site. This is a good analogy for why the Aussie's are so crap at sledging:

Back in the day, when making a bad mistake meant almost certain death there was a genuine mystique about the drivers, these handsome playboys who chose to risk their lives on a regular basis for little more than the pure glory of it and as a result, posters of them were on the bedroom walls of every schoolboy.

In the modern era (well, since Imola '92 at least), completely screwing up a corner or overtaking manoeuvre results in nothing more than a stiff neck and a $5m repair bill. That, combined with astronomical salaries has bred a generation of arrogant arseholes. Now we've lost Villeneuve and Montoya, what's left? A Finn who's allegedly a party animal but can't string two words together in TV interviews and a bunch of corporate drones.

It's a shame that drivers no longer have a last drag on a cigarette before stubbing it out on the tarmac, pulling on a helmet and demolishing the opposition.

Big Ramifications

In fact, your post is a classic example of what I was remarking on in my post. "We invented it, how can you do it? Oh, we do it so well, so we get to decide what the quality standard is"

Er. I agree. It's human nature for the incumbent (the inventor as you put it) to feel that way. If the copier becomes the master then there might be a transitional grey area, but it eventually becomes obvious.

Think French vs. Australian wine making.

In fact, my post was more a classic example of "I'm smarter than you, shut the fack up and listen to my opinion as if it were the word of God." Pretty much like every comment on every blog in the entire history of the internet.

…Another 2 *possible* reasons why Australian sledging is crap – and shouldn't be copied. Apart from them being overpaid uneducated ball hitting robots.

It's from another era and it's not considered cool any more. Like drink driving or behaving like a violent thug on the footy field.

The ICC. The traditional "the pavilion's THAT WAY ya facking ASSHOLE" sendoff would probably cost you 5 large, and maybe even a holiday. So now we're reduced to "woooooo hooooooo!" in high pitched voices.

Samir Chopra

Well, Ramifications, clean your keyboard please, because typing on that grog-stained piece of shite is affecting your writing.

Your nostalgia for days gone past is truly touching. Nice to see some old-fashioned hankering for the past. Unfortunately, sledging has moved on. You might not have noticed. Lotsa people are doing it, and no one really gives a flying farg about the Autonomous Quality Control and Trademarking Office that you've got set up Down Under. Its been changed, remixed, cut up, redistributed, made different from the original. So, much as the Australian team likes to insist they're the only ones that should be allowed to sledge (in whatever shape or form), and no one gives a damn, no one is going to care about your assessment of the quality of the Indian team's sledging. The proof of the proverbial pudding lies in the proverbial eating c.f. the gigantic conniption that the team has managed to induce in the Ausssie team and legions of bloggers and blog commenters. And in getting Aussie cricketers to complain to match referees and umpires; whatever happened to "leave it out on the paddoc, mate"?)

When everyone gets tired of it, we'll go back to the civilized days (if there were any).

Big Ramifications

You're got facking fairy floss for brains mate. Half the post you're repeating everything I said. The other half you're being a typical pouty Indian hypocrite, and the third half you spend contradicting your previous post (So now the Indian side HASN'T copied Aussie sledging. I'm sorry, when you said copied I thought you meant copied).

"Don't argue with morons, they might get the belief there is some middle ground when they are simply wrong."
-Dr Richard Dawkins [paraphrased very badly!]

Boo

All this shit about hypocrisy and holier-than-cowness, yeah yeah you're a hypocrite, no, no, you suck - aside, I must admit I see (with my one eye) a little bit of what Big R is trying to say. Big R (and rightly) appreciates the 'fine art' of clever sledging that strives to rise above the lowest common denominator of a middle finger.
Where BigR is being an ass, is to assume that only Aussies are capable of clever insults. Of course, having English as your mother-tongue helps, but anyone who heard of the Brandes and the biscuit retort or of the Sarwan and McGrath incident knows otherwise.

The problem with humour of the insulting type is it doesn't sit very well with the object, even when said object is champion sledger like McGrath. The point of a joke, no matter how clever, is lost when the joke is on you or your mother or your wife. Which is why I guess, leave insulting and clever humour to the satirists and stand-up comedians and late-night talk show hosts.
While on the cricket pitch, just concentrate on the f**ing cricket and all will be well.

Samir Chopra

Pleasure to have induced a conniption in you mate. Right back atcha. Pity you're mired in poor reading skills, otherwise I coulda sent a few more gems your way. But really, pearls before swine and all that.

Big Ramifications

Where BigR is being an ass, is to assume that only Aussies are capable of clever insults.

Er. No.

What I am saying, and I'll have to tread very carefully here, is that I don't think that particular style of humour (some comments above also mention the smouldering Aussie aggro so there's probably 2 different arguments here) comes naturally to your average 20-30 something Indian citizen.

YET ANOTHER ANALOGY: In one of their short lived TV series, Roy and HG had the coach of the Aussie cricket team on as a guest and they were calling him a "joke of a cricketer" and a "clown of a coach" and he was just pissing himself laughing the whole time.

The next guest was an Englishman. Same schtick. COMPLETELY different reaction. He just didn't understand the Aussie mentality at all, and it started to get predictably ugly, where he tried to "copy" Roy and HG by abusing them back. It was a cringeworthy train wreck of an interview.

That's what I'm saying. I don't think piss taking is in your culture. Great, ancient culture that it is. Are you devoid of humour? No. Are Indians renowned for taking the piss? You tell me. Should you be allowed to copy? Of course! Am I allowed to comment and say "erm, gents, it's not working, you're looking like a bunch of dickheads"? You tell me.

Boo

Big R, I'm totally with you. Piss-taking is indeed not in our culture, hope it never is.

My point simply is ... even if you are the Nobel of Nobels winner in piss-taking, there'll be a point where when someone hands you a clever insult, you'll be unable to take it. E.g. clever insult about terminally-ill mother etc.

Who defines where good taste ends?

Big Ramifications

But glad to see with both agree, coz your point above has nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

ps: Who defines where good taste ends?

Me.

pps: I though McGrath was an AWFUL sledger. But coz he was such a bloody good bowler maybe people assumed his sledges were on a par with his bowling?

ppps: Here's something we can all agree on.

A Pakistani cricketer getting cracked in the face with an elbow and then coming to ground head first with a thud is FUNNY.

Boo


Bhajji strikes again

Harbhajan said the ill-feeling between the two sides that spilled over in the series in Australia had long since passed. He said both teams had played in the right spirit in the first two Tests in India this month.

"We are very focused on cricket and on the next Test in Delhi," Harbhajan said. "We know Australia will come back very strong. It has been a great series so far. There have been no dramas in the first two Tests. I hope the next two will be played in the gentleman's spirit."

No dramas. Hehe, good old wanker, that Bhajji.

Samir Chopra

Boo: Really, piss-taking is not in the Indian culture? That comes as a heck of a surprise to me. There is a rich tradition of piss-taking in each and every single Indian language and, in the cricketing context, there is a rich tradition of piss-taking right out on the field.

FWIW, I think SRT's sledging of Waugh just before the handled-the-ball in Chennai (2001) was a classic.

What did exist in the Indian *cricketing* culture for a long time was a certain deference in international cricket. And that changed by 2001.

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