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"almost everyone who used them to shape their music made something that was so much better" -- I think we could say that Alex Chilton's "The Letter" was definitely bettered by Joe Cocker's version.
I haven't heard enough of Alex Chilton to judge whether he was better than the Beatles, but that fact alone might indicate personal preferences are swaying his judgement. I have heard Dennis Atkins' other top 2: Neil Young and Bob Dylan. Early Dylan was brilliant ; Neil Young I could never get and still can't. In terms of harmonica playing alone, if Larry Adler is a 95, Dylan would be 17 and Neil Young would be an 8 on a good day.

Alex Chilton's Big Star's Radio City was rated #78 in Paul Gambaccini's Top 100 Albums published 1987. He didn't have much to say on the subject and neither do I given that I don't have any of his albums.

Right now I'm listening to The Beach Boys Pet Sounds. And it never fails to stir an emotion or thought or two. Especially "Caroline No".

I've got most of Dylan's early albums, quite liked Infidels one or two good tracks and love a bit of Neil Young in its time and place.

But to compare any of the above with the impact of the Beatles is, quite frankly, ludicrous.

Now I'm a Beatles fan from way back to John Lennon's death, in my teens when I first heard and became recognisant of them. I knew the Stones before them.

But not one of their albums could be described as anything but a revelation. McCartney and Lennon would both admit the derivation of their sound, indeed Rubber Soul was a response to the Beach Boys Pet Sounds. And I'd offer that Sgt Pepper's and Magical Mystery Tour owe alot to Dylan's Mr. Jones. But, they did it better, they can be listened to today with young ear that find that sound rapturous and enticing and captivating.

The Stones take a grizzled and wisened ear. They were fundamental. But the Beatles are the basis for all modern Pop. Everything comes from their re-interpretation of British folk songs, Black American Blues, and Irish grievance.

The Beach Boys may have been just the same if Brian Wilson didn't go under. You've got to look to a kid's respinse to see what's eternal and revelatory and the Beach Boys and Beatles are that mark.

Young and Dylan have their moments but, seriosuly, God only Knows what music would be without the Beatles, the world could show nothing to me, so what good would music do me?

Please excuse the typos in that last comment.

Pet Sounds came after Rubber Soul.
Brian Wilson said he was on a mission after hearing how far ahead the Beatles were with Rubber Soul. McCartney, like many, really rates Pet Sounds so it probably influenced Revolver et al in some ways.

You're right Decca. As much as it humiliates me to ever admit my errors, I am wrong. I meant Pet Sounds -> Revolver.

Awesome album though -> Rubber Soul. Take that Dennis Atkins!

Bowie took his inspiration from Lennon vis a vis Life on Mars "Cause Lennon's on Sale Again!

I am in a minority, but feel that the white album and Abbey Road contribute nothing to the Beatles' standing, and don't regard them as proper albums. Without them, the Beatles would still be the best of all time.
But one thing that is often forgotten in these discussions is that the Beatles were a singles band and an album band. Other bands have since sold more singles, or had more top 40 entries, but I don't know that many people have sat up until 12 o'clock at night to hear EVERY new single when released -- both sides -- since those days. And those singles pushed pop music along every 3 months, and had people shaking their heads in amazement. "Strawberry Fields forever" shook people up, "Revolution" blew them away, "I am the walrus" although part of an EP rather than a single, spawned a band that made a career out of that sound (ELO, although the Beatles can't be held personally responsible), "All my loving" knocked out every rhythm guitarist -- for all Lennon's supposed shortcomings as a guitarist, there are not too many guitarists now who would get up on stage and attempt it at Beatle speed, "She loves you" was a revelation -- so it goes on. The albums, in one sense, were so overwhelming for other bands, because they contained so many tracks that could have been singles, but weren't -- and frequently the albums did not include any singles.

I'd be happy to go with a play off of my favourite Dylan songs Visions of Johanna or Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands with Norwegian Wood, I'm a Loser or You've Got to Hide Your Love Away.

Although I easily declare I am in awe of Young's Cortez the Killer no matter how themtically and historically wrong it is. One of my favourite tunes of all times. I remember having this as a wake up tune on my then, super futuristic, wake up tune clock.

Prof Ross, the Beatles could shit out great songs even in their darkest days.

For all their acrimony even Let It Be is 100 times better than most of the dross regurgitated today.

I'd say that Phil Spector ruined Imagine, some songs bttered by Bryan Ferry, but even still... it was a benchmark album bettered by the minimalism of Lennon's Remember

Band on the Run takes a leak all over much of which produced today. When my own boy prefers Magneto and Titanium Man to Lady Ga Ga's Paparazzi it's a testament to what went right and what went wrong.

Even though Lennon hated the final product of Abbey Road you've gotta hand it to McCartney for creating the eponymous concept of "The Concept Album" which has become the hellmark of Madonna, Pink Floyd and everyone that came after.

Hallmark, not hellmark.

Magneto and Titanium Man. I'm with Tones. None better post Beatles.

Well, Pat, for all the songs being thrown around here we have a rock solid common ground: Visions of Johanna is my favourite Dylan song, too.

Youtube's muddy mix does this track a massive injustice - particularly the sublime slide guitar at the end of verse one and the masterful drum roll at the end of the fourth verse - so pop on down to Springwood's finest internet and pur-chase the album.

But I prefer this to Cortez the Killer. And this.

I would also chuck in a link to Happiness is a Warm Gun if I could find a worthwhile version.

Come on, Prof, White is Gold.

To prove my point about shitting out great songs, here's Hey Bulldog, from Yellow Submarine, written for children.

The lyrics play on so many levels, the music, the bass, ...sursum corda.

To compare Chilton to the Beatles is laughable. Big Star was a glorious cult discovery once upon a time but nowadays with a facile fossil like Rolling Stone championing them and REM using them as a bible it's hard to get a grip on reality. From the snippets I've heard, Chilton's solo stuff is tuff going in places too (although more interesting and challenging than most of the Fab 4's solo stuff I guess). Even Chilton had the sense to know he wasn't in the big league. The Beatles were as big a pop music league as ever has been put on this planet. Time to stick on their great but depressing Third/Sister Lovers album, get a drink and salute the great man. At least he's not passing into obsurity.

Right, Cowgirl In The Sand, forgot that one. Yes...Fucking awesome.

Old enough now to change your way...

I first heard this driving in my Cortina, Tina, swooping into the Bellingen rainforest.

Tattoed into my heart is Young's Rust Never Sleeps and Harvest because I used to rock my first born to sleep in her cholic and regurgitating semi-sleep, hoping to make her sleep to that album. The other because I shagged a girl I used to go out with to that. Young and Van Morrison's Moondance and Astral Weeks, I played to my first girl, desperate for her and I to sleep.

Willow, by Joan Armatrading, is much under-rated. She knew bad news, and could sing it well.

What? did I bring the whole house down by mentioning Joan Armatrading?

Allright...the most awesome rock tune (for now and pertinent to this night) goes to Soundgarden: Jesus Christ Pose.

Turn it up. Don't sleep.

The Blister Exists" and I Guess the lord Must be In New York City

For the first time I'll be free in Sydney City!

Went foraging for supplies at Coles.

Mind you, Armatrading is not my cup o' tea, nor is Soundgarden.

My cup o' tea.

Nilsson Schmilsson!

That's a gag, boy. I keep pitchin' 'em, you keep missin. 'em.

One of my favourite pop songs:

"There was ham and there was turkey, there was caviar"

Don't click yet. What song?

Sounds remarkably like The Who.

For musical re-interpretation you can't go past Sky Saw or Anthrax.

Though i'd go with Baba O'Reilly

Out here in the fields
I fight for my meals
I get my back into my living.

I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.

Shit a brick! did I link a pusillanimous version? Here it is again: They're all wasted

You know I'm glad you linked that Tones. Many people would be too shamed to admit a love for White man Boogie Woogie.

You can dance? So can I, it Feels so right!

If you want to play populist then I'm gonna kicjk your arse with this opener: Jesus Freaks, we'll fuck you who ain't but it's a great song anyway Let's all sing along!

Tony Danzer hold me closer!

Rockin track. The same song they sang at the Garden of Gethsemane.

We are building a religion, it's called Global Warming, come with cash

Fuck the Hoi Poloi, Labor Rules this town

The truth lies in my frustration.

Love Tiny Dancer. That's a great moment in Almost Famous.

And if California slides into the ocean
Like the mystics and statistics say it will
I predict this motel will be standing until I pay my bill

Ah you're a cruel man Tony T to give me that.

But you know what?! No matter how much I booze, no matter what you say I lose no sleep, I don't care what you say boy, dish me out another Taylor made compliment, I just can't face my failure, till the morning, I'm nothing but a well fucked sailor!

Right, ya got me there.

I claim proneness to exaggeration but: in my house, I rule.

And I raise you She played in the streets, town of Sydney

While you're thinkin bout that Fairies Wear Boots

Best ever live cut: A Quick One.

Tony, white is not gold, it is not even beige.
As I've said elsewhere -- and you can dangle me upside down for saying it -- it was written at the same time and in the same place that Donovan wrote his Hurdy Gurdy Man LP. Donovan may think he invented a lot of things that he didn't, but he was certainly there, influencing John and Paul at this time. Listen to Hurdy Gurdy Man without preconceptions, and I think you can see where the White album came from, and you can see that it's a better album than the Beatles' effort. Does this make me an equivalent aged fathead to Dennis Atkins?
The much-lauded Abbey Road gave us a clear idea of where Wings would go -- nice sounds, slick production, and songs that were begun but not edited or finished. That said, there are a few good Wings songs.
Let It Be -- a great album that enabled us to hear that the Beatles could still sound good, when recorded live in the studio, just as they had on Please Please Me, just a few years before.

Prof if you like Donovan you'll this cover of Hurdy Gurdy Man even more, which proves yet again that there's always room for improvement on the originals.

On another point, just like that copyright claim on Men At Work's Land Down Under, I reckon the bass line from The Clash's Inoculated City was ripped off by Madonna for Material Girl. Check it out and let me know if I'm imagining things. Everyone I've pointed it out to agrees with me.

Sorry about my Donovan/White album comments -- I'm like a broken record and have actually said virtually [or virutally] the same thing on these pages before.

The Butthole Surfers version is very good and I like the film clip.

Maybe you're just mad about Donovan!

The fella doing the intro agrees with you Prof. No need to apologise though, you've convinced me to try him oit again.

The guitar reminds me of Getting Better.

Have listened to the White Album after many years, following this discussion, and my first thoughts are that it's worse than I remembered. Ringo comes out of it looking pretty good, as he had perfected that dead-drum, slowed-down beat that John used on his solo albums (maybe the production was able to capture that muffled sound on this album). The rest of it sounds like the band is either stoned, meditating, or just not there. A few proto-Wings songs from Paul with some nice but hokey piano playing. The slow version of Revolution is good, Revolution no 9 is funny, While my guitar should have been eliminated at rehearsal stage -- the band gave that one a good workout, and tried every trick in the book, but it's still a feeble song. Back in the USSR is better than many bands could muster, but still doing it by numbers. A lot of unnecessary tambourine work, too, throughout the album, which smacks of the overdubs Paul liked to use so much.
I'll listen one more time and see if I change my mind.

Prof Ross, not that I want to suck up to that cnut Tony T but I'm becoming more and more a fan of the Stones especially after drunkenly listening to Stincky Fingers over and over till I passed out dribbling on my keyboard mid command and brought down an entire Public Service Dept's telecomms, not that THOSE cunts would know the difference.

But I was listening to Moonlight Mile and couldn't get outta my head that I heard this beginning before and just now realised it was Beck's Blackhole. Disimular I grant you but the chord structure is reminiscent of each other yet I hear them again and they are nothing alike.

Long story short: White Album is over-rated, Beck under rated (listen to Paper Tiger - fucken awesome), and like wise Magical Mystery Tour is the Beatles Par Excellence.

Track Listing:

1. "Magical Mystery Tour" McCartney 2:51
2. "The Fool on the Hill" McCartney 3:00
3. "Flying" (Lennon/McCartney/Harrison/Starkey) (Instrumental) 2:16
4. "Blue Jay Way" (Harrison) Harrison 3:56
5. "Your Mother Should Know" McCartney 2:29
6. "I Am the Walrus" Lennon 4:36
Side two
No. Title Lead vocals Length
1. "Hello, Goodbye" McCartney 3:30
2. "Strawberry Fields Forever" Lennon 4:10
3. "Penny Lane" McCartney 3:03
4. "Baby, You're a Rich Man" Lennon 3:03
5. "All You Need Is Love"

The best instrumental, and Harrison's Blue Jay Way not just the first use of Moog but poetic in music, evocative, a mood changer. Each and every one of them a stand out, Baby You're a Rich Man a single effort today yet overwhelmed by everything else.

John Lennon saved White Album, with McCartney here and there especially Blackbird (in the minimal style he wanted Let it Be to be).

When the wind blows and the rain feels cold
With a head full of snow
With a head full of snow
In the window there's a face you know
Don't the nights pass slow
Don't the nights pass slow

The sound of strangers sending nothing to my mind
Just another mad mad day on the road
I am just living to be dying by your side
But I'm just about a moonlight mile on down the road

Made a rag pile of my shiny clothes
Gonna warm my bones
Gonna warm my bones
I got silence on my radio
Let the air waves flow
Let the air waves flow

Oh I'm sleeping under strange strange skies
Just another mad mad day on the road
My dreams is fading down the railway line
I'm just about a moonlight mile down the road

I'm pining sister and I'm dreaming
I'm riding down your moonlight mile
I'm pining baby and I'm dreaming
I'm riding down your moonlight mile
I'm riding down you moonlight mile

Let it go now, come on up babe
Yeah, let it go now
Yeah, flow now baby
Yeah move on now yeah

Yeah, I'm coming home
'Cause, I'm just about a moonlight mile on down the road
Down the road, down the road

THE Song of the M4 Monologue.

Just an absolutely fucken brilliant song.

I don't believe you are allowed to play Moonlight Mile without first playing Dead Flowers.

Speaking as an old cnut, it's sad, and not a little confronting, that I don't enjoy music like I used to. I rarely listen to records and CDs anymore, but I still get a shiver up my spine when I hear a familiar old track in a movie, on the radio or on TV.

These two still go very nicely:



One for the Aussie cricketers.

Farcanal Tones, that is the most depressing comment I've ever read.

"... I don't enjoy music like I used to..."

Honest, yes, depressing, absimuletley.

That Spanish speaking gentleman, the one we all called Kurt.

Cough, cough, as our Labor man Phil the cnut Koperberg, sends, cough cough, drifting clouds of back burned gum tree and marsupial babies our way, I can only say, YES, I do believe we've had this conversation before.

Monkey Man is Air before Air became cool. Your first two I can do without. But I'll listen to the albums before I remove my doubt.

But Tones, what concerns me is this attitude of yours. I don't enjoy music like I used to. You know why that is dontcha mate?! Cause you're a non-drinkin etc etc. I'll let the etceteras speak for themselves.

I live for grog, and music and at the moment...cigarettes. Sex is a thing of the past. Though I'd like to live for that too if the kids could clear out for minute or 10 and the mrs would wear the belt and garters I bought her. Cough cough, damn you Kunterberg!

But Tones, you are my beacon when it comes to music, how can you forsake me like this? Time locked as good as that time was, is there nothing that moves your heart these days?

I was bitten by a boar
I was gouged and I was gored
But I pulled on through

Yes, I'm a sack of broken eggs
I always have an unmade bed
Don't you?

Only one thing to fix ya Tones, seven plus seven and all, a Lost Weekend.

Just in case this post is never updated again and kids come here only to leave depressed at the enuit on display I leave you with a token left before - White Zombies' More Human Than Human from the awesome Astro Creep: 2000.

The worlds revolve.

Cast iron guarantee!

One night post-purchase you will be halfway through a firkin of imported lager and you will put on Exile. By the time you are half way through Let It Loose you will be belting it out at the marsupials over your back fence. That's if you don't get side tracked by Rocks Off or Loving Cup first.

In the meantime, back here in Straya.

Put a bunch of Poms and Canadians together and what do you get? That's right: a surfer band.


His Last Summer.

Violent Times.

Get the album: Drop Out With The Barracudas.

The et ceteras were redundant, the first part was right. Once you get off the fuel, music loses something. And live music is complete pox.

Actually, live music, give or take the odd occasion, has always been pox.

To prove I'm not a complete fogie, here's a song featuring fat young blokes with beards, baseball caps and fluffy toys: Now It's On.

It's a black violent place.

Re Magical Mystery Tour tracks

You've got a point there Mr. Batard. I've heard all those tracks over the years, but I'd forgotten exactly what comprised the Magical Mystery album. I agree that there's little, if any, filler.

I'm assuming you know that Magical Mystery Tour was a double EP, not an album. The first 6 tracks you list are on the EP.
The next 5 are singles that did not appear on any album, but have been bundled together with the MMT songs.

Prof, I think there's a conflict with the UK release and the US/Australian release. Just checking Wiki now confirms that there were two releases: the UK, as you say, a double EP, and the US release containing all 11 tracks above.

I certainly have a tape (well it belongs to my mrs) that has all those tracks on it.

Top album, check it out.

Ah, mais oui, Monsieur Patard. In Australia we had the EP release. I didn't see the LP until many years later (available through the old record clubs), so hadn't realised that it was released in the US in the same year -- in fact before the EP. I hadn't realised the US was still fiddling with releases. In other words, you are correct.
But for my money, it is not a Beatles' LP, in that it wasn't planned and recorded by them as such.
Then again, I treat the White album and Abbey Road with equivalent disdain.

Aah, so that's what happened. Thanks Prof.
Yeah, those side 2 singles tracks really do bulk that hybrid album up.

Tony, just in case you didn't know the Stones are re-doing exile, there's also a doco comming out about the sessions in the basement of keefs mansion in France.

Cam, there's a show on ABC1 tonight about the Stones & Exile.

Stones in Exile.

But you are a puriste mon amis Prof, oui?

The American vs UK release dilemna is unsolvable!

For another example (one of many) there is New Order's "Power, Corruption and Lies". The US release added to the UK's, "Blue Monday" side one and the remix "The Beach" on the other.

The puriste may judge the UK version as the correct one whereas filet de poisson such as moi, adulate the US release based on pure listening pleasure.

We may be agricultural in our tastes but, from the land is born culture!

Thanks, didn't know the doco was being released this early.

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