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Warne is as accurate as ever. Impressive effort to put Murali off his game. Lee et all will be aiming for fingers - which explains Murali's windmill batting style. Maybe that's how he hurt his shoulder (putting him out of the 20/20 farce). Maybe he was asked to absent himself from the 20/20 tournament. The commentators would have tied themselves in knots explaining to the new audience why one guy was playing baseball and the others were playing cricket (or would they??)

The fucker's a chucker.

I can't agree. The Law wasn't changed because of Murli as much as it was changed because under the old rules, under testing all bowlers chuck (with perhaps the exception of Jeff Thompson and others that bowl like him). Michael Holding himself was on the committee that decided this and he is not one to go for Chuckers .The other thing is Murli's wrist/fingers are freaky and that makes his action look 50 times worse.

On the "he takes his wickets against the minnows" arguement, this might be somewhat true, but on the other hand Warnie has never bowled at let alone taken a wicket against arguably the best batting line-up throughout his career (perhaps of all time). Also (with out doing research) Warnie bowled with a better support cast so got to bowl in more 2 innings games and at more tails then Murli would have (look at the last test in Brisbane. Aussies got 2 innings and faced the tail on both occasions).

JMTC
Molly
Http://cricnews.mollyzine.com

Theres arguments both ways as to who had the better of it during their career: Warne with a world class bowler up the other end putting pressure on to help him take wickets (but missing out on many himself due to this), or Murali with no bowling competition (except probably Vaas) who was expected to take a bag each match for his side to compete, and was allowed the overs and time to do so on most occasions.

He's no Ian Meckiff.

"I can't agree. The Law wasn't changed because of Murli"

Yes it was.

End of discussion.

There's none so blind...

Wickets against minnows is a red herring. So are the supposed 'Aussies whinging that Warnie will lose his record' jibes.

Just check out some of the photos in circulation (mainly courtesy of Tone!) Measure the angles like Yobbo did. You're talking a bend of around 40 degrees plus. Even when you take off Murali's deformity, you're still talking of a straightening of around 20 degrees.

No ball.

Mark, I think you will find that the law doesn't talk about how much it is bent, as much as how much it bends! These might seem the same thing, but their not. If your arm starts at 40 degrees bent, as long as it doesn't go to 55 or 25 degrees it is a legal action!

Have a look at this site: http://www.coachesinfo.com/category/cricket/351/. I haven't fully looked at it but from what I have read, it gives a good understanding of the law!
So to quote Yobbo:
No it wasn't.
End of discussion.

Molly

Yeah, we know all that, Molly, but none of it means Murali doesn't throw in a match. End of sentence.

By the way, all, up above I've just added a sequel to Shane-Warne-Muttiah-Muralitharan-tit-for-tat-spat-gate.

I'm starting to get tired of chucking spinners.

Bring back The World's Fastest Bowler.

Gawdalmighty, the "Muralid(th)eran - Warne Trophy" ???

I would throw the fucking thing in the bin about ten seconds after "winning" something like that.
Nearly as good as winning the Fugly trophy after a night on the turps or the Hanse Cronje Honest Gentleman Cricketer Award.

These cricket marketing people are either barking mad or are plotting the end of the game as we know it.

I refer the jury to the media bullshit abounding over 20/20 "cricket" and rest my case, M'Lud.

I agree the trophy is inappropriate. Much better would be an urn containing the burnt remains of a protractor, a Pakistani reverse-swinging cricket ball, an Al Jolson makeup kit and the Official Laws of Cricket, with a label that reads:
"In Affectionate Remembrance of FAIR CRICKET, murdered by the ICC in the 1990's, Deeply lamented by a large circle of sorrowing friends and acquaintances
----
R.I.P.
----
N.B. — The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Kandy."

The fucker IS a chucker.

Testing? That's BS. I don't think it said in the laws of cricket that an umpire has to refer all chucking calls for testing before no-ball can be called.

Warne - Murali. Murali "not a chucker". That sounds like reverse honesty, as its known these days.

I'm very conflicted. I can't work out which to pay attention to . This blog about cricket or something or the election converage. Or go to bed. Or cut my toenails.

The wily fox is back. Its an ill omen when a fox licks its lambs and every time a lamb bleats, it loses a mouthful of hay.

The older you get, the better you get - unless you're a banana.

I'm getting bored with it too, not least because every time TT mentions it we have regurgitate the whole issue all over again.

Nevertheless, Phil, as that site makes patently clear, the law was changed in 2000 BEFORE the biomechanic studies were made. It was changed for legal reasons, to supposedly tighten up the slightly vague law that depended on the umpire's judgment. Under legal pressure from Sri Lankan and other subcontinental teams.

After the all-bowler biomechanics came out they realised that a straight bend law was a bad idea because most bowlers straighten by that simple definition, so they increased the tolerance margin. This happened to suit Muralitharan who'd been throwing at 14.4deg (over the then 10deg margin). Confluence of interests you might say.

However, what that site also makes clear though is
1) MOST bowlers are going from hyper-flexion to straightening, and therefore don't throw by any definition that isn't ridiculously simplistic.
2) Muralitharan does a yoyo-flick that is very prone to straightening under any definition of a throw.

What's clear to me is that
1) The old law (1947) was infinitely better.
2) The new law (2000+) needs to be respecified to actually convey what the body is doing in a throw (and it certainly isn't "just straightening").

The actual problem is noted in the article you mentioned:

"This study showed that a bowler such as Muttiah Muralitharan with a fixed flexion and carry angle deformity has the potential to legally utilise humerus internal rotation to generate speed and spin."

All this biomechanics only goes back to what the eye tells us. Straightening by itself is not an effective throwing technique - it's a "girl's throw". A real throw involves the humerus internal rotation specified, with some straightening. And Murali, not every ball, but in plenty of them, is a chucker.

I knew I could count on you, Russ. Good work.

It's true that we have to regurgitate the issue every time someone brings it up, but I don't mind, I'll just keep pounding away.

"The wily fox is back. Its an ill omen when a fox licks its lambs and every time a lamb bleats, it loses a mouthful of hay."

Yet is it not also said that a sick yak leaves light tracks? Or that a shirt has a tail but cannot bark?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/warney-still-the-worlds-best-spinner/2007/11/15/1194766868818.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

pure gold

I lean on Murali critics like a drunken man leans on a lamppost, only for support, not illumination.

No worries, Nick, I've got that one ready to rock. It's choice, Joyce.

The bastard paper took the picture off line, so I had to get home to scan it.

Anyway, it's up now. Straight up there ▲.

There was a discussion of the Murali-Warne debate on Ninemsn the other day, and it showed that there is woeful ignorance on the matter of chucking, e.g. condemnation of the Trevor Chappell underarm delivery as illegal (it wasn't), condemnation of Malinga's round arm delivery (it's legal to bowl round arm).
However, it also showed there has been far too much reliance on "biomechanical testing", which "even convinced Michael Bevan about Murali". The biomechanical testing seems to involve a lot of "baffling with bullshit" to me. We need to analyse each part of the claims of such testing (as has been done many times in this column). If all bowlers bend their arm, are we talking about drag bend, or are we talking about chucking? Did Andy Roberts bend his arm at 5 degrees or 14.4 degrees? Was it drag bend, or jerking forward from the elbow?
We also need to bear in mind that science does not exist in a vacuum, and that many scientific test results are fudged in the direction researchers want (I'm not saying this is the case with Murali's testing, but "scientific" does not equal "true").
Match-testing will only proceed if it verifies Murali's action. We have seen the "scientific" Hawkeye, and it can be fiddled with, and the "scientific" heat-meter view (or whatever that silly image is on Channel 9) is often inconclusive.
We know that previous "scientific" testing showed that Murali's arm-bending was entirely an optical illusion, and that he never, ever bent his arm during deliveries -- even in match conditions. This "scientific" test is rarely quoted by those who rely on the "biomechanical" testing.
Personally, think an umpire can take into acccount Murali's natural bend, and call him if he chucks -- and I would be happy if an umpire called Lee, Malinga, etc. They would soon stop throwing.
Warne's comments do seem to have opened up a new frank-ness in the discussion, and Channel 9 is showing more of Murali's action than it has before.
Expect to hear more talk of "the evolution of the game through change in bowling actions" as more people accept what is obvious. Muralitharan aka Muralidaran, lovely chap though he seems to be, throws the ball more frequently, and more obviously, with a greater degree of elbow flexion, than any other test cricketer.
His style, or variations of it, will be emulated.

I should have added that we don't need scientific tests to show that Warne is a dill, but he was still a great bowler, and I would estimate his flexion at less than 5 degrees.

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