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I take it you lot are sick of chucking then. Leave it up to sad ole Tone to carry on the fight. Craven dogs.

If you think it's bad now, wait until he quits (or is forced to quit) playing and starts coaching. And if you think they will go after Murali after banning all the scapegoats, then you've clearly misunderstood the purpose of scapegoats.

I was a bit worried when I saw Botha chuck his doosra. No-one else mentioned it. Was I mistaken? Thankfully AGB has confirmed the evidence of my own eyes........maybe the ICC will feel better about calling a white chappy?

Haven't seen Botha in action as yet. However, my old man rang me the other day and said "Have you seen this Botha? He's another chucka." My reply "groan".

Oh, I did wonder why Smiffy was so reluctant to bowl his spinner; I didn't even seen Botha yet. I'll have to give him a look when Australian bat this afternoon.

Botha is bowling too front-on to not throw. At least if he wants to bowl off-spin, he could probably get some decent out-swing.

I think we need to get past the idea that throwing is somehow the same as cheating. Almost all bowlers do chuck the odd ball, some occasionally (Brett Lee), some every few balls (Murali and most other off-spinners). Let the bowlers bowl what they will and let umpires call it as they see it. They are seeing it after all, because they report bowlers.

Throwing is cheating.

Hopefully we won't see a reply of this...

Total Australia 279 (all out, 64.3 overs, 307 mins)

No Nick, it isn't. No more than over-stepping the mark is, or not walking when you've got an edge. The bowler is entitled to bowl it if they think it is a legitimate delivery, and it is (or at least should be) up to the umpires to make a decision on whether it is.

If they were consistently called, bowlers who throw would soon learn, like Michael Kasprowicz, that an inability to bowl a legitimate delivery makes them a liability.

Generous declaration. Should be an entertaining afternoon.

Hmm, Good win to the Aussies and Smith is definately looking like a tool now. Warnie proved right yet again!

I missed the Botha bowling action, but seeing the word DOOSRA! on Cricinfo live scores immediately had me thinking 'chuck'. Does anyone have a photo or video of his action?

Cricinfo says the declaration was "generous". ABC radio described it as "sporting" and "brave". Cricinfo goes on to say "South Africa could feel a bit hard done by: with most of day four lost to rain, they were forced into a situation where they had to risk losing a match that they had controlled so much of in order to have a chance of winning And on a pitch that had remained in tact under overcast skies all match, it was always going to be difficult to defend such a moderate target"

BULLSHIT!

Smith had 2 options: 1) draw the series or 2) lose the series (either 1-0 or 2-0, either way *lose* the series). Smith did what any decent captain would do - try to salvage a draw from a loss.

And remember: aren't Australia supposed to be chokers in the chase? Aren't we supposed to be flat-wicket-bullies? Isn't the capitulation to Fanie De Villiers just over a decade ago supposed to always be the fatal flaw in our claims to world supremacy and forever mark us with the chokers chain stain?

Well Oz just smashed the Safas out of the park with 15 overs to spare, 287 runs in approx two sessions on a pitch that the Safas struggled to make quick runs on. Lets not forget we were 7 for 230 odd in the 1st innings at great risk of failing to reach the follow on.

No, the truth is, that was a challenging declaration, a record 4th innings chase at the SCG since 1890 something, and Australia won the match and series in brilliant style. Emfuckingphaticly!! All hail Punter. As KO'Keefe says "2nd to the Don."

Mr Z ... there's a pic in today's "West", if that's any good. The man's a contortionist.
I used to throw javelins, I would have given my left one for an elbow action like that.

I'll have a look @ the west in a minute but I think I'll get to see a bit more on the news tonight.

If he does get pinged, as much as anyone gets pinged for chucking these days, what does it say about SA cricket? There best new spinner is a dud.

I think G Smith should have ensured that he wouldn't lose rather than trying to win. There's a return leg of 3 tests in SA later this year, and overcoming a 1 test deficit is a damn sight easier than a 2 test deficit.

It's a 3 test series though Mr Z with a return 3 Test series in SA. Each series stands on its own.

"I think we need to get past the idea that throwing is somehow the same as cheating. Almost all bowlers do chuck the odd ball, some occasionally (Brett Lee), some every few balls (Murali and most other off-spinners)."

Russ, you're in the wrong blog if you want to say even the slightest thing in defence of chucking.

As I explained in the post, 99% of fast bowler's 'chucking' is nowhere near the same thing as a huge proportion of offies' 'chucking'. Even Bruce Elliot, the UWA bowler doctor, notes that it is virtually impossible for bowlers to bowl a doosra without flex. But the new rules have basically allowed offies to flirt with that flex.

But I agree with the rest of what you say. Especially with your point that the umps should call it as they see it.

For the record, and not that it would surprise anyone, I think chucking is cheating.

Now Botha has a problem - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/231870.html

Thank God!! His action is a shocker.

And it's still not as bad as Murali's.

Agreed.

There'll be some interesting moments in the one-day series when Murali is bowling to Gibbs.

Channel 9 should invite viewers to SMS their votes in on who is the bigger the cheat - Murali the chucker or Gibbs the match-fixer.

The bloke with the most votes is booted out of the VB Series. Something of a reality cricket concept.

Russ, overstepping deliberately IS cheating - witness Ambrose, Walsh and Lee deliberately bowling from way over the line to intimidate the batsman. They know exactly what they are doing (as opposed to the odd sneaking over the line when straining for pace). Blatant nicking and disputing the umpires decision (Hello Warnie - who was surely pissed off and below his best in this Test, probably due to the fact that Mrs Warne (Test Wickets : 0) is about to take him for $10 million) is cheating as well. And if Botha, Murali, Harbajhan et al don't know they are chucking their doosras....well then they are idiots. I don't think that for a minute.

Tony, first let me clear something up. When I say fast bowlers throw occasionally I am not talking about flex. The statement that such-and-such bowls with 8.2 degrees of flex is a statistical abortion. What I am talking about is that if you get a typical fast bowler to bowl 100 deliveries then 99 will have no discernable bend and one will be a chuck (>10-12%). That doesn't make that bowler a cheat, but it is a no-ball.

And yes, off-spinners are more likely to chuck, and there are several who are taking advantage of the political hole that the ICC has dug itself -- though as you also said, they can bowl properly when they need to. But you won't get out of that hole if you continue to brand them as cheats. Because every time you do, you unleash a hail of indignation for accusing such a nice young chap of such dastardly things. You can't expect an umpire to make a no-ball call under those circumstances.

I'm not defending chucking. It shouldn't happen. But it is a cricketing problem, not a moral one.

I think it is important to emphasise that Botha's doosras are clearly intentional cheating, whereas Murali's doosras are an understandable reaction to the legacy of colonialism, the exploitation of the third world by white males, and a reflection of an ancient, authentic and deeply spiritual culture.

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