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The Don has risen

technical point.

A chucker CANNOT swerve the ball away whilst attempting offspin

Russ

Don, could illuminate us on your technical point?

Roebuck can't resist wishing stereotypes, physical features and personality onto playing style. English players always represent the empire, Australians are rugged individualists, Harbajhan is a proud, intemperate warrior, a certain unmentioned spinner is a lovely shy young lad from a troubled country, our curious off-spinner is an unsmiling white South African. You couldn't possible be sympathetic, it'd be like saying you support apartheid.

The Don has risen

you can swerve the ball if you bowl but if you chuck you can neither swerve or swing the ball.
(try it if yoy can)

you can however get unexpected bounce

Tony Tea

Who's swerving the ball?

The Don has risen

Bothofhem is. He swerves t more than spins it

Russ

Don, that's what you said before. But, swerve/drift/swing is a physical property of the ball's spin and seam position. I want to know why you think a player is physically incapable of producing that spin/seam combination. Because, to me, a ball bowled that spins from off to leg, with the seam angled at 45 degrees, physically, is the same as a ball chucked that spins from off to leg, with the seam angled at 45 degrees. Bowlers who bowl like Murali, using the wrist more, tend to impart more spin, which should translate to more drift (depending on their pace), more topspin and hence more bounce. But you obviously disagree?

Russ

Not, incidentally, that Botha bowls like Murali. He is mostly an old fashioned offie who doesn't pivot properly, doesn't start with a straight arm, and then finds the vertical on release. It isn't unusual for offies to throw, though he seems to do it more than most.

Tony Tea

Swerve or not, I've seen numerous examples of Pik giving his arm a Symonds-like whip - probably the best description is "yo-yo flick" - as he lets the ball go.

If I had taken over the ICC before they changed the rules to allow chucking, I would have made every off-spin "bowler" aim to bowl* like John Embury.

* No need for "scary quotes" when talking about off-spin and Embury.

The Don has risen

It has all to do with the delivery. Chucking a ball makes it literally impossible to swing it or swerve it.
Ever notice Murali swerve the ball? No but he makes it jump a hellava lot.
Singh used to but now doesn't but swerves it now because his action is legitimate.

Charlie Griffith couldn't swing the ball in a pink fit.
the Late Jim Burke too a lot of Sydney grade wickets because of the jump of the ball off the pitch.

Try first bowling and then chucking slowly and you will see what I mean.

Tony Tea

Don

What are you saying, that because Pik is swerving every ball ball he is not a chucker?

Tell yerself yer dreamin'.

He might make the odd one swerve, he might make the odd one go straight on, he might send down the odd arm ball, he might even throw in the odd doosra, but the fact remains - plenty of his deliveries are blatant, arm bent, Symonds style, yo-yo flicks.

The Don has risen

to be honest I haven't seen much of bothofus bowl.

however it is physically to swerve a cricket ball when chucking.

Go ahead and try it.

It could well be he bowls his swerves but chucks the rest.

Given he doesn't play cricket but indulges in the pyjama game I cannot make a definitive statement.

Bear in mind Sinh chuked the odd faster ball as Mo so surprisingly showed in that greatest all test series in India.

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