Last week on the woirless Jon Faine, Les Murray and Frank McCourt were talking about reading and comprehension when McCourt raised an interesting point regarding Humpty Dumpty:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.
There's no mention of eggs - so why does everyone assume Dumpty is one? They didn't thrash out the point entirely, moving on to other topics, but they certainly left listeners with the impression the egg was a later addition. One of them, I can't remember who, also suggested Dumpty may be based on one of Henry the Eighth's advisors.
So I looked it up.
Wiki's apochrypha asserts Dumpty may be based on either a cannon, Richard III or a Roman war implement. But it also suggests that although eggs aren't eggsactly mentioned in the rhyme, they probably did have a connection to the original. Everyone back then assumed Dumpty was an egg in the same way we now assume the Logies are for crap TV. It goes without saying.
That's something to think about, isn't it?
Should your interest be further peaked, and I fail to see why it wouldn't, you might look for hidden agenda in other nursery rhymes. Jack and Jill may have gone up a hill for water, but who goes UP a hill for water? And what if Jill was a Gill? Hmmm. Old King Cole may have been merry, but merry may mean many things. Sure shines a new light on those fiddlers three. And what about those three men rub-a-dub dubbing? Say. No. More.
"So where the bloody hell are you?"
Posted by: Tony.T | 01 March 2006 at 18:25
It's all bollocks. How could a horse put anything back together again? The hoof is not an ideal implement for mending things. "All the king's monkeys", now that I could believe.
Posted by: hungbunny | 01 March 2006 at 19:27
Humpty Dumpty not an egg is bullshit. I've seen pictures.
Posted by: youcancallmemeyer | 01 March 2006 at 22:40
hello hello - wheres TinyT.
This post sounds intelligent and sensitive and thoughtful
Posted by: Francis Xavier Holden | 01 March 2006 at 22:51
HB: The horses were needed to drag Humpty off to the hospital for eggsamination.
M: Stooged. They were egg plants.
FX: TinyT eggsperienced a momentary fit of reflection. It'll pass.
Posted by: Tony.T | 01 March 2006 at 23:22
Humpty Dumpty was a character in one of the Alice books. Don't ask me which one because I'm too lazy to look it up. I believe he was described as a round egg of a man, or something, hence the egg-ness of the Humpty.
Posted by: jair | 02 March 2006 at 10:49
Through the Looking Glass, according to Wiki. (I've not read it - should I be ashamed?)
Posted by: Tony.T | 02 March 2006 at 11:10
That's the one.
Both Alice books are very strange. You can tell that Mr Dodgson enjoyed substances. Why you'd tell stories like that to little kids though, I'm not entirely sure.
Read The Hunting Of The Snark - one of the most bizarre stories I've ever read.
Some interesting familiar phrases that I didn't realise came from the Alice adventures, that's about the only thing that I'd recommend it for, unless you're seriously out of reading material and want entertainment for about 2 hours.
Posted by: jair | 02 March 2006 at 11:17
When I'm serious about reading a book, I wait until it becomes a film. That fills in my two hours.
Posted by: Tony.T | 02 March 2006 at 12:02
There's a computer game version of Alice, which is fantastically disturbing. Alice is a mental patient, and has blood stains on her pinafore. Runs round with a bloody great knife.
Only film version of Alice I saw was the R-rated one, when I was about 8 (very liberal family, you see). Nah, didn't have any repurcussions on my mental health...
Posted by: jair | 02 March 2006 at 12:06
Malice in Wonderland.
Posted by: Tony.T | 02 March 2006 at 12:20
I've got an Annotated Alice book. As do all good post modernists.
Posted by: Francis Xavier Holden | 02 March 2006 at 16:38
I meant The Annotated Alice, The Definitive Edition, Illustrations by John Tenniel NOT an annotated Alice like I might have scribbled in the margins myself. Although I have been known to, well.. at times .....
Posted by: Francis Xavier Holden | 02 March 2006 at 16:42
Jack be nimble
Jack be quick
But Jill preferred
The candlestick
Posted by: Clem Snide | 03 March 2006 at 00:46
Humpty-Dumpty is now a verb. To Humpty Dumpty something is a tool in the spin doctor's armoury that allows them to lie, mislead and otherwise fuck with the truth. Mostly done via tradmarks.
For example:
Understanding™, not just insurance and
100% Pure Aussie Beef™. The addition of the ™ allows you to disconnect a word from the dictionary and have your wicked way with it.
Posted by: Some other Bruce | 03 March 2006 at 10:50
Classic Australian movie™.
Posted by: Tony.T | 03 March 2006 at 15:39
the Logies are for crap tv?.....but what about toadie?
Posted by: sophie | 03 March 2006 at 22:57
Dear AGB - my interest is piqued by your superior knowledge which may be peaked by cinematic trivia and I only mention this with the kindest regards.
and whatever that was about the children's rhyme, you are correct of course.
Posted by: brownie | 04 March 2006 at 13:51
Soph: Toadie?
Brownie: You're too, too kind.
Posted by: Tony.T | 06 March 2006 at 12:01